The Melbourne Zen Group

by Kathleen Gregory

The Melbourne Zen Group (MZG) has been meeting regularly at E-Vam Institute for many years, even before our present premises in North Carlton. (They also meet in Clifton Hill on Fridays and Saturdays). The sound of their chanting has become part of the Tuesday night landscape at E-Vam Institute. The MZG is affiliated to the Diamond Sangha, a worldwide network of Zen Buddhist groups that grew from the centre established by Robert Aitken Roshi in Hawaii in 1959. Focus on a Centre met with Kirk Fisher, a practice facilitator with the MZG. Kirk has been a member of the Melbourne Zen Group for five years and has sat with other Diamond Sangha groups in the U.S. and Australia since 1992.

Kathleen Gregory: How did the MZG first begin?

Kirk Fisher: It began with three or four people, I think, and started in its initial form, over twenty years ago. Robert Aitken Roshi, the founder of our lineage, came out from Hawaii and gave retreats in Sydney. These legendary three or four people started sitting together between these sesshins and it grew from there. One of them is still around and still comes to sesshin now and then, or so I'm told. Over the past four years or so the MZG has really been in a time of great flux. It feels like we are a rather young group really. Recently, we have been talking about finding a new zendo for ourselves and as we have matured as a group we have been looking at more leadership in the Sangha. We have also looked at our relationship with our teachers. We have two teachers now, actually: Subhana Barzaghi Roshi and Susan Murphy Roshi, both from Sydney.

KG: How were the connections made with those teachers?

KF: We are a Diamond Sangha group, and Subhana and Susan are Diamond Sangha teachers. That's the obvious connection, I guess. It seems more, though: that we knew them from the close networking that exists between our sanghas. Many of our members go up to Sydney for sesshin and a few of the Sydney sangha members have come down here. The Sydney sangha is quite large compared to ours and has been in existence longer than ours, but Subhana and Susan are very respectful of the Melbourne Zen Group as an autonomous group. They recognize the uniquely MZG qualities which make us what we are.It seems that for a long time, at least from when I arrived five years ago, we were not sure if we were a Diamond Sangha group or not. We held a loose idea of affiliation. In Melbourne it seems that the group came first and then the identification as a Diamond Sangha group came next. The Diamond Sangha is an affiliation of teachers who have received transmission from Robert Aitken Roshi or from teachers who have received transmission from him.The key points of the Diamond Sangha, I would say, would be the strong embodiment of realisation coming from Aitken Roshi and his dharma heirs - our teaching line. Our practice combines elements of Soto and Rinzai Zen; both shikantaza (just sitting) and koan practice. That's attractive to a lot of people. Other features are the idea of lay practice, engaged Buddhism, and a consensus style of running the sanghas. A lot of our teachers seem to be psychotherapists or counsellors of some kind as well.

KG: Could you say a little about the Soto and Rinzai traditions?

KF: The Diamond Sangha is a lay Buddhist lineage, receiving its transmission lines from both Rinzai and Soto sects in Japan. The mixing of these two lineages - some would say the reform of these lineages - came from the Sanbo Kyodan lineage in Japan. Yasutani Roshi, a Soto priest, who received transmission from Harada Roshi, also a Soto priest, founded the Sanbo Kyodan. Harada Roshi brought the Soto and Rinzai elements together and Yasutani formed the idea of passing on this transmission as a lay tradition.Soto and Rinzai are two of the main Zen sects in Japan. As a generalisation, Soto is often seen as the Zen of the farmers, and emphasizes shikantaza, 'just sitting,' an approach that is very close to Dzogchen. Dogen is a huge figure in Soto Zen and had an enormous influence on what Soto is now. I'll add that there are more Soto Zen Buddhists than Rinzai in Japan.If Soto was for farmers, we can think of the Rinzai School in connection with the Samurai class. Rinzai is more associated with koans: 'What is the sound of one hand?' 'Show me your original face before your parents were born,' or 'Mu.' Rinzai emphasises daily interviews with the teacher to show your understanding and kensho, although both schools have this as a goal.Dogen often criticised the use of koans, at a time when they were being misused, but looking at his record, he had trained with koans, used them with his students, and put together a koan collection of his own. When Harada Roshi trained with a Rinzai monk he saw himself as going back and reinvigorating the Soto sect by bringing back some of the Rinzai qualities - reforming the Soto school, as it were. Yasutani Roshi, his disciple, was critical of the 'Cathedral Zen' of the Soto School and the excesses of the priest class, so he founded a new lay sect that brought the great Soto and Rinzai elements together in a lay transmission. Yasutani's dharma heir was Yamada Roshi, who gave transmission to Aitken Roshi who took this Sanbo Kyodan line. It seems to have begun evolving along western lines.

KG: What makes it particularly western?

KF: In some ways this is hard to say. None of my teachers has been Japanese in this sect, although I have studied, also, with other lineages. We use simplified forms, compared to the more traditional forms in a Japanese monastery and there is a western style of democratic running of the sangha as opposed to the more Confucian, hierarchical structure of Japan.

KG: What does this mean in terms of the role of the teachers?

KF: Our teachers give over responsibility for the day-to-day running of the sangha outside of sesshin. Subhana has said that she likes to see herself as a guest in the sangha, where she may also have something to say about our rituals and be an advisory figure for our development. She supervises the work of the practice facilitators as well. During sesshin she is the person who is running the sesshin. She is responsible for that. But for a lot of areas in the sangha it is up to us to be our own group, or there is a dialogue between us. Both Susan and Subhana meet with the Managing Committee and practice facilitators when they come here. They read the minutes of the committee meetings and so on.

KG: Are there certain requirements for one to become a practice facilitator?

KF: We haven't had practice facilitators in Melbourne, at least by name, until recently. Subhana put forward the names of people she felt would be able to take on more of a service role. Those people were chosen through discussion and approval with the sangha. I orientate newcomers and am available to people with a basic practice type of question. I give talks once a month or so and lead discussions. And I'm doing this interview! That kind of thing.

KG: How many members do you have? What are the regular activities of the MZG?

KF: We have around twenty-five members, and fifty who receive our newsletter, which we send out once a month and which is a way for people from far-flung areas to keep in contact. Some members live away from Melbourne and we may only see them for sesshin. We offer sesshin, which are seven-day retreats, at least twice a year. There is a possibility of having more than that, particularly when we run a hiking or bushwalking sesshin. We offer two hours of zazen twice a week, on Tuesday nights at E-Vam Institute and on Saturday mornings at the Clifton Hill Zendo. We sit for twenty-five minute periods, alternating that with walking meditation and a short sutra service. Once a month we take a period off the sitting meditation to have a Dharma discussion around our practice. We offer a monthly zazenkai, as well: that is a full day of sitting, at Clifton Hill on a Saturday, which includes a Dharma talk. Once a month, too, on the closest Friday to the full-moon night we have another zazenkai, which is sitting from 7pm-11pm. We have offered classes on general Buddhism, calligraphy, vocalisation, chanting and so on. We transcribe talks, poems, our schedule and news and also have information about other groups.

KG: On Tuesday nights I have noticed that you have a small library of tapes and books for loan. What are these?

KF: The tapes are recorded talks given during sesshin or zazenkai, which we make so that people can borrow them. We have tapes of teachers from other Diamond Sangha groups, as well as our own. We have some books and magazines on loan as well. We have a borrowing system among our members, where we list and borrow from our home libraries within the group.

KG: What sort of activist activities has the MZG been involved with?

KF: None that I know of. Quite a few of our members are also members of the Buddhist Peace Fellowship, or participate in activism as individuals.

KG: From what you are saying, it sounds like the MZG has gone through a lot of major changes, has come through them and is now finding its place as a group.

KF: That is a spin we could put on it, but I am not really sure! It is my Dharma home. It is a home that people who belong to it, feel very passionate about. It's like my own house: it needs a bit of renovation, but it's still home in the meantime. However, I am not sure exactly where we are going. I think we will move towards finding a new zendo and we will grow and mature as a sangha.

KG: How do you become a teacher in this trandition?

KF: It is said that it takes ten years to make a good student, then another twenty years to make an apprentice teacher and another ten years after that to make a master - it is not for those ambitious to teach, I suppose. Basically, becoming a teacher involves receiving transmission from someone who has received transmission himself or herself, in legend this goes back to Shakyamuni Buddha. Historically, that is inaccurate. In our sangha we use a koan system that we go through and intensive training with a teacher. Then we would spend time as an apprentice teacher and must make a relationship with a sangha before we can become a teacher. Your teacher looks at how your practice is going, but also looks to see that there is a sangha that you have become part of and which accepts and supports you. Again, there is that more western idea of democracy in action.

KG: Does Robert Aitken Roshi need to approve all teachers?

KF: In terms of our lineage, your transmission is really between you and your teacher. Approval doesn't go back to Robert Aitken Roshi. He has been a teacher to all of my teachers, but a third generation of teachers has already emerged who have received transmission from Aitken Roshi's dharma heirs.

KG: What connections do you have to other Zen or Buddhist groups?

KF: It is interesting because quite a few of our members, who left five years ago, formed the Clifton Hill Dojo and we now sit in their Dojo, which is a nice bit of healing that has happened. Also, a few of our members have gone to Ekai Korematsu's group and we have connections with that group as well. So, there is friendliness between the Zen groups in Melbourne, I think. Also, there are the Sydney, Perth and Adelaide Diamond Sangha groups that we have contact with; and of course, there is a worldwide Diamond Sangha network. Quite a few of our members have teachers outside of the MZG. A few of them are Pat Hawk's students, a Catholic priest as well as a Zen teacher, in Tuscon, Arizona, for example. There are other teachers who indirectly influence our group.

KG: Thanks, Kirk.

KF: My pleasure. I should add, though, that the MZG is a very diverse group. It would be interesting if there were ten other MZG members here at this interview - we might have fourteen different opinions!