Stuart McDonald : How important is it to you to believe in God?

Toby: I usually run into trouble with this one, because when other people talk about God and spirituality, I either don't understand what they are talking about, or I have a vastly different notion about their meaning. I don't think I really have a notion of their meaning, but if I was going to have one, I think there are two avenues I would go down: one is the belief that God is the living presence in everything. So if you want to talk from a scientific point of view, all that stuff that binds the things that exists, I can understand people calling that God. I could be wrong, but I have a feeling that is what the Islamic perspective of God is. The other perspective that I find interesting comes from the animist tradition, which is that everything has its own individual spirit: there is a spirit for the woods; there is a spirit for water. Everything has its own spirit. I can almost lean towards those two beliefs. However, the idea that there is some kind of intelligent control is a foreign one to me.

Stuart: How relevant is God to everyday life?

Toby: For me it is relatively irrelevant, because that is not something that I think about everyday. I suppose I tend to intellectualise things, so the only way I can understand God is as an intellectual concept. It is not something I feel.

Stuart: Can you practise a spiritual path without believing in God?

Toby: I think you have to define your terms. If you mean moving though a journey which becomes more profound, then, I can understand, but that is not everybody's idea of what spirituality is. On the one hand, I can say there is no spirituality, but I still feel that I am moving through a series of experiences that are more profound and that develop my understanding. You could call that spirituality. I do not believe you need God for that. For me the whole \question of 'why are we here?' is the wrong question. The statement should be, 'we are here' and then the question is, 'Well, what are we going to do?'

I certainly believe there are powerful ideas out there which can make other concepts more portent, like the idea of Gaia. I find that to be a really potent concept. James Lovelock came up with the Gaia theory when he was working for NASA. His whole hypothesis was that the whole planet is a single living organism and if you want to talk about spirit, there is one spirit for he whole thing. Every time something happens that makes conditions less favorable for life, that organism acts in a way to swing it back to something more favorable. For example, the temperature on earth has been incredibly stable for a really long time. There have been all these things happening, like solar flares, but life always adapts to bring it back to a stable planet.

Heather Marriot: How important is it to you to believe in God?

Liz: Very important, but it depends on the definition of God. I do not see God as 'out there' in heaven, because that would be really hard to believe in. I see God more as a force, more as energy. It is not a personalised thing, but I think humans have to personalise God because they cannot understand r comprehend that amount of mystery. People from different cultures make up God to suit their environment, their climate, the times they live in. The idea of God evolves to suit that, which is why there are so many different religions.

To me, God is like a reference point. It gives me something to focus on. If I think that God is everywhere, I can actually talk to it. If I go down to that tree, there is God in that tree and I can connect with it. If I think there is an aspect of God in things, I can have more respect for them, instead of just seeing them as an object to be exploited. It is an awareness thing, or an intent.

Heather: How relevant is God to everyday life?

Liz: The relevance depends n the person. Some people would say it is not relevant at all, but it is relevant to me. The whole idea of God is that it unifies everything do and gives me more of a sense of purpose. If I did not have a belief in God, or a divinity, I would be apathetic and depressed all of the time, instead of just some of the time. God is the bigger picture. We should stop worrying about the little things and think about the big picture.

Heather: Can you practise a spiritual path without believing in God?

Liz: Why would you? It would not be a spiritual path would it? It would be a 'something else' path. People can say, 'this is a secular, spiritual path' but there is no such thing really. A secular spiritual path is contradictory in terms. I see God as something much more natural. I have no problem believing in a God, because if you believe in the world then you believe in a God. I do not even know whether you call it God, but I call it 'God' for want of a better name. It is an energy that makes things happen.